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Post by deb on May 21, 2010 23:39:58 GMT -5
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Post by grantpk on May 22, 2010 9:42:32 GMT -5
The video is funny - got a good laugh watching it.
I agree that laws should be obeyed and enforced, but things are not as simple as they seem. There is a good chance that the AZ law -- which, BTW is not the same as Federal -- will cause more harm than good.
Regardless of the exact wording, none can honestly deny that the AZ law targets Hispanics, especially Mexicans. The end result will likely be that Mexican-American communities will distance themselves from the white population and will not cooperate with local law-enforcement when investigating real crimes. I think that a better solution would be a more intense border guarding making it harder for illegals sneaking into our country. As an aside, increasing border security is already needed to try to stop terrorists from entering the US.
Again, not excusing illegal immigrants, but those illegals are not all bad or detrimental to us. If we were able to get rid of all illegal aliens, we would have some problems to solve such as "Who would pick the crops, wash our dishes and clean our hotel rooms?".
Contrary to popular conceptions, undocumented immigrants contribute to our economy as workers, taxpayers, and consumers. They account for 5 percent of the total U.S. labor force, and at least a quarter of the workers in industries like construction, agriculture, groundskeeping, meat processing, and textile production. Undocumented immigrants pay sales and property taxes, and most pay federal and state income taxes as well, even though they're not eligible for Social Security, Medicare, or the many other programs their tax dollars help fund.
Illegal immigration is a crime. Like most categories of crime, it can be controlled but not eliminated. The damage it does to our country is minor compared to the damage done by real problems. Give the Border Patrol the tools and manpower they need, then turn our attention back to the real issues. Persecuting illegal aliens is a waste of time and money.
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Post by deb on May 22, 2010 13:00:26 GMT -5
Hi Pete (is it ok if I call you pete - after a long time of calling you grant?)
I get many of the points that you make, but I also see the frustration by the citizens of Arizona. Even under Nepolitano, Arizona was begging for federal enforcement and assistance at the border.
I have also see various accountings of the illegal immigrants contribution to or burden on government programs. Here in TN, because of the hefty sales tax, the burden may be less. I also know that some who use illegals do not hire them directly - they are either classified as contract labor (no SS, MC and Income tax and no way of tracking inaccurate address and ID on W-9 once 1099 has been issued and the person paying them has done what is required by law), they are picked up as casual labor and paid in cash, or they are paid by individuals rather than businesses so no reporting is made and there are no contributions to income or payroll taxes.
For those working in the gray economy - yet using schools, hospitals, social services and other government resources they are a burden. Taxpaying citizens are less willing to carry that burden when the economy is bad for any length of time. If the economy were to pick up tremendously - many would go back to enjoying their success and give little or no thought to the illegals - perhaps even hiring some to do lawn work, painting or construction.
There are some of us who just take exception to the illegals blatant nose thumbing at our laws. I am one of those people. Why would I believe that a person who ignores the law to get into the country and then ignores the law to work in the country have respect for the United States?
I know many who have immigrated here legally. They are here because of an allegiance to the United States. I know one in particular who refused to take a shortened path to citizenship by becoming a South African citizen, and then getting an almost automatic U.S. citizenship. Her response to the immigration attorney was that she had no allegiance to South Africa, and would do what was necessary to obtain citizenship. It took her four years, and it took her husband even longer - but both are sworn U.S. citizens. I admire that they were true to their principals, and even more I admire that they respected the laws of the society they chose to join.
I appreciate that you do a lot of volunteer work, but I acknowledge that there are many citizens here who need help and I believe that we should take care of our own first.
I believe that we have set requirements and determined the number of people who can legally be assimilated into the U.S. and I think that the laws should be followed. We should know who is here, how long they've been here, that they are authorized to be here - and if they aren't authorized they should be deported.
I don't want amnesty granted to illegals, and I don't want them to be allowed some favored status as far as the immigration process. If they are illegal, they should have a more difficult time obtaining citizenship. Bear in mind that if you give the current illegals an advantage you will be punishing someone who is willing to enter the country legally - how is that just?
I do make an exception. Any child who was brought here illegally by his parents should be allowed to return home and apply for citizenship with no penalty upon becoming an adult. I acknowledge that young children are not responsible for the actions of their parents. This would be contingent upon the child returning to his native country immediately upon becoming an adult. If the child of an illegal has reached the age of majority, and stays in the country illegally, then that child is willingly breaking the laws of the U.S. and should be penalized as any other illegal.
And before the question is raised, the citizen children of illegals are the responsibility of the illegals. They knew when they came here illegally that their children would be citizens and that there was a risk of deportation. As parents, they get to choose whether to take their children home with them or leave them in the care of a citizen who is willing to take care of them.
There is also the effect of illegals on the wages paid for certain jobs. I would pay more for lettuce picked and packed by U.S. citizens. If a company pays a fair wage and still needs migrant workers, they can hire those here on one of the many special visas that are available.
Thanks for posting a legitimate argument. I did read it and consider your points. I also think that if more people could discuss the issue rationally we'd stand a better chance of finding an acceptable solution.
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